Comment on VA Joe Post
On my post, The Old Sarge Gets Aggravated by Quitters……..
Comment by Mr Bojangles
September 24, 2007 @ 2:39 pm |Edit This
I am retired military, so don’t even start on the standard fall back of questioning my patriotism to the ideals of this great country. Unfortunately old Sarge believes the end of a gun regardless of the reason or purpose for war is the answer. (hey Sarge, what about all the lives lost in Red China in the 60’s?? if you are crying for the Vietnamese, why not cry that we did not invade China too? What about Darfur right now … where is our military?? what about Uganda & Ida Amin?? cry for the Ugandans.. where was our military?? And this list could go on & on & on …Old Sarge, you just don’t get it. It is sad and unfortunate. A soldiers job is to fight the battle, but it is the public and their elected representatives to debate & determine which wars are right & justified. (this is the freedom & democracy the military is defending)
Vietnam was a mistake, get over it … the French found out & so did we. It was a civil war. Now we are in another civil war quagmire in Iraq … Sadaam Hussein was not a nice guy … but he was never involved in 9/11 & DID NOT have WMD.
This administration has weakened the military, alienated our friends & emboldened our enemies. It will take a herculean effort to undo the damage this administration has inflicted on our country & our security, so we better get started by throwing these bums out ASAP.
Well now Mr. Bojangles, I will start my response to you by thanking you for your service, unfortunately, you have forgotten what the hell you were there for. Let me take you comment item by item:
POINT 1
what about all the lives lost in Red China in the 60’s?? if you are crying for the Vietnamese, why not cry that we did not invade China too
Read a book sir, if you look back at Korea, General MacArthur wanted to solve the problem in China in 1953, President Truman fired him as Supreme Commander because he voiced his opinion. Please go to my post and read Remembering my Life Page 3 where I discussed action Truman took in countermanding MacArthur’s orders on deployment of the 7th fleet in the Strait of Formosa this allowed the Chinese to send an additional 100,000 to 200,000 troops into Korea. Just an example of politicians running a war and not the generals.
POINT 2
What about Darfur right now … where is our military?
I think our military is busy now, this pesky little thing called the War On Terror, maybe you should pose that question to the United Nations.
POINT 3
what about Uganda & Ida Amin?? cry for the Ugandans.. where was our military?? And this list could go on & on & on
Please refer to point 2.
POINT 4
Old Sarge, you just don’t get it. It is sad and unfortunate. A soldiers job is to fight the battle, but it is the public and their elected representatives to debate & determine which wars are right & justified. (this is the freedom & democracy the military is defending)
And I suppose you believe I give up my rights under the Constitution when I became a soldier. I believe we have elected some real losers, people who did not learn from history, as you did not, with the people we have now we will repeat the errors of 1975. History is in the past, I am worried about today.
POINT 5
Vietnam was a mistake, get over it … the French found out & so did we. It was a civil war.
You should reread your history. A civil war, we were fighting against and North Vietnam and the Viet Cong who was supplied by Russian and China, The French learned the same thing that we learned from Vietnam. If you lose your will to fight then the war is lost. America did not lose the war in Vietnam, it lost the war at Kent State, San Francisco, and the Mall in Washington DC. Yes America lost a war in Vietnam but the soldiers never lost a battle. It was Nixon’s domestic problems that doomed the South Vietnamese, “Vietnamization” was working when Congress cut the funds necessary for the Vietnamese to defend themselves. We could not even give them ammunition so they could fight.
POINT 6
Now we are in another civil war quagmire in Iraq … Sadaam Hussein was not a nice guy … but he was never involved in 9/11 & DID NOT have WMD.
This is truly lame Mr. Bojangles, I expected more from you. To start we are fighting an Insurgency, Alquada in Iraq, there has been some secular violence but that is diminishing daily. As in Vietnam, if Iraq is given enough time they will be able to defend themselves. War is hard, mistakes are made, you correct and complete you mission or you cut and run. I suspect I know where you stand. Hussein was not a nice guy, compared to Hitler or Pol Pot you might have enjoyed his company. Your statements is nothing more than Left Wing talking points, the deserve no response. He did have WMD, he used them on his own people, where are they, I have no idea, most likely Syria
POINT 7
This administration has weakened the military, alienated our friends & emboldened our enemies. It will take a herculean effort to undo the damage this administration has inflicted on our country & our security, so we better get started by throwing these bums out ASAP.
Do as you wish my friend, the country needs strong leadership at this time in our history, what kind of team do you want, Nancy, Harry and Hillary. Maybe Obama as Secretary of State, he plans to do something someday. Murtha in Defense, wow what a powerhouse. Look at what you are wishing for my friend, hopefully you will not get it……
Mister Bojangles
Call him Mister Bojangles
Mister Bojangles come back and dance please
Come back and dance again Mr Bojangles
September 28th, 2007 at 9:55 am
I’ll bet he was drafted Sarge. That’s what I think. I don’t think he enlisted. He’s a bleeding heart liberal! Love you Sarge Charlie.
September 29th, 2007 at 8:31 am
Sarge, I am calling for a pullout from Iraq..but not for the reasons listed by Bojangles.
The original stated objectives have been accomplished. Saddam is dead, there is no danger from WMDs in Iraq, and the Iraqis have an elected government such as it is. Mission accomplished.
I do agree that we are caught in the middle of a civil war and appear to be supporting both sides of it. Yes, I agree that some of the problem is from Al Qaida but a hell of a lot os it is from Shiite and Sunni militias who are as busy killing each other as they are American troops..if not more so.
The third point is that unless we get leaders in Washington DC that are committed to winning we are spinning our wheel in Iraq and getting in deeper with every spin. The war can still be won and if I had my choice I would choose to win it..in fact I will support any politician that is committed to fight the war to win. But I cannot support the way it is being fought now. To win a war the war has to be waged..total war..not worrying about collateral damage and prosecuting troops who might have shot a civilian..look..their are NO uniformed troops shooting at our troops..it is civilians and under any and all rules of normal engagement anyone who shoots at you is considered the enemy..
SO what are the options..? Cut and run, fight to win, or stay the course. The course we are on doesn’t appear t be proving much. The American people do not appear to want to support an offensive war that could bring about victory. That leaves cut and run..
One other point. The Iraqis ( a modern term by the way ) have been killing each other for some 1500 years and have only been governed by a “iron hand” government..one that killed if not tortured all that apposed it. I reckon that pulling out and letting them fight until one faction or the other gains control
will really be in our best interest provided that Iran and Syria are kept out of the fight. Look at it this way..for every Iraqi killed by another Iraqi that is just one more that we will not have to kill ourselves.
Mission accomplished. Come Home.
September 29th, 2007 at 9:46 am
GUYK… thoughtful comment, even though I don’t agree…
Your absolutes on the ground do not correspond with those of the people I know there, but I completely agree with you about the lack of political courage in Washington and the PC of fighting a war that has caused untold problems.
Iran and Syria are involved now and will take over if we leave. Without our presence, there will be no way to stop them. So, while it sounds nice to say ‘let them fight it out’ - which ‘them’ are you talking about? AQI, Iran, Syria, Shities, Sunnis, Kurds? - Iran will take control of that volatile and oil rich nation - that is NOT in our best interest.
As for Mr Bojangles (the real and wonderful one is long passed on) - he packed the anti-war talking points in and even kept them in order for the most part - starting with the obligatory retired military/patriotism screed. (We have no reason to believe that it is true, when the rest of the post is nonsence.)
What Saddam did have was a cease fire agreement that he continued to break and refused to comply with despite all of the UN resolutions - the FIRST reason for the invasion - Though every one likes to skip that one and go to the secondary reasons (and September 11 NEVER was one of the reasons). And, we have found WMD’s in Iraq - just not the huge stockpiles that everyone wanted a photo op on, but plenty to murder many people.
September 29th, 2007 at 10:16 am
Thanks Flag..that was a point that I made about Syria and Iran..somehow they have to be made aware that they have no dawg in the hunt in Iraq.
I am getting to versions of the “absolutes on the ground”…neither from MSM because I don’t believe a damn thing they tell me about what is going on. But I do have friends and acquaintances left from my days in the service that are still on active duty..all of them high ranking non coms or oficers and they tell me that the surge has worked but that without a continued presence it will not work. And, they also tell me that with few exceptions they do not trust thir Iraqi counterparts and have very little faith in the Iraqi government.
I fully understand the reasons that we went into Iraq and agreed with them. I was proud of the blitz to Baghdad..a classic maneuver with only one fault..ground taken and not secured and enemy not disarmed come back to haunt the occupying force..and of course that is what has happened.
It is not too late to win and I hope that we do what needs to be done to win. But I am afraid the public does not have the will to do what must be done to win this one.
No country can fight and win a war without the support of its citizens..we are no exception. And it is for that reason that I say that the only viable option is to declare victory and come home.
September 29th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Now I got to tell you guys, those are good and thoughtful comments, I agree with a lot of you points GUYK, but I think the Gazer nailed it down, we have no choice, we must finish what we started. I would support a MacArthur or a Patton style of all out war, get er dun, thats is what I think.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:59 am
I hope we can finish what we started Sarge. I read in the morning news that the dim-a-crits are backing off the withdrawal and are trying to come up with a plan for a central government in Baghdad and separate state type areas for the Kurds, Sunni and Shiite. This might work provided all concur in Iraq..but then the current government there would work if all concurred.
I figure it will take an all out war to finish it and I will support that. But I cannot support the current rules of engagement. I am proud of our military. It takes a highly trained pro to go into combat with one hand tied behind the back…
October 1st, 2007 at 10:00 am
GUYK-
I worry about what the public has the will to do these days - anything? What has happened to our country? We have politicians none of us would invite into our homes making decisions based on polls and people taking polls based on feelings, not knowledge.
October 1st, 2007 at 10:55 am
Yep. And I also wonder about the politicians and why they thought that the Iraqis would roll over and welcome a democratic government. Someone in the White House and the intelligence agencies didn’t read their history books. These people have been killing each other for centuries and the only way they have ever been ruled is by a strong man rule and a despotic strong man rule at that. I have my doubts that this is gonna change any time soon.
October 2nd, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Way to go sarge. YOu were dead on in your comments. It is too bad that some of our citizen don;t see the importance of winning this war on terror. How quickly they forget 911. Unfortunately they think that if we leave tham alone they will leave us alone. That is a recipe for our downfall. thanks for your service. bob